See the nasty side of the UKIP
At the recent UKIP conference, their leader Nigel Farage declared that his team are business men in their other lives, which apparently makes them different from the Conservative politicians.
One has to doubt if there is any representatives from co-operatives like Harvest and the Co-op in Bath or worker share companies like Waitrose.
What UKIP advocates appears to be the extreme right version of the extreme left's "Class War".
Should they achieve their aim of bringing the UK out of the EU we can be sure their business men members will be happy to continue to move capital around Europe and the rest of the world, even without being in the EU.
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They will act like the businessmen who recently took over Cadbury's. This company, originally nurtured by philanthropic Quaker brothers, provided a model village for 300 workers.
Now, production has moved to Poland. This is not unusual.
Many businesses have chosen to escape fair wage demands in the UK by moving their capital to counties where people work for less.
While it is not difficult to see the logic, nor the fact that such moves can help poorer countries develop, it is also easy to see the nasty side of UKIP thinking in that by withdrawing from the EU, UKIP supporters will still be able to move their money and the jobs associated with the businesses to other countries.
However their workers will not be able to follow the opportunities in the same way once the UK is withdrawn from the EU. Effectively many will become prisoners in an impoverished demograph, not happy workers in a model village. I worked abroad for 15 months, it has been a valuable lesson and it would be wrong to deny others that chance.
NICHOLAS HALES Uphill Drive Larkhall Bath
Comments
by MoeXXX
Tuesday, October 16 2012, 10:35PM
“Malcolm, take a look at the political compass. I use the term "right-wing" purely in the economic sense, and it still puts UKIP on the far right. However, they seem to be pretty far right on the social axis as well.
Bath1946 - I prefer to follow the evidence and the argument rather than a party line, but I disagree with your relativism. Personally, I regard my political position as centre-left. In many parts of the north, Scotland, Wales, Germany or France my views would probably be regarded as centrist. In the wealthy south of England, where I live, people regard me as a socialist - yes, socialist - as in the USSR or East Germany. I find this rather ridiculous.
There are well-accepted definitions for these terms, objectively based on policies, and they do not change when you drive a few miles north or south.”
by bath1946
Tuesday, October 16 2012, 11:10AM
“Moe, it is because i thought your link to be subjective that i posted mine. To classify most policies and parties as right of centre makes the left/centre/right delineation meaningless. You can call a party or policy extreme for whatever reason, but based upon your link even traditionally held left wing policies are now moderately right wing and i thought neo-liberalism referred to the monetarist policies of Milton Friedman which appear to have gained a cache of their own because they were adopted by Maggie with disastrous social consequences and are still pursued.
I prefer to form an opinion on each policy and vote for the candidate with views most appealing to me rather than following a party line, although i detect a profound groundswell in favour of UKIP because they seem to address eloquently the concerns of many voters particularly much to my chagrin on immigration and the EU which the other parties sidestep.
Good luck with your tussle with those further right than you, i am bowing out with absolutely nothing to contribute. Incidentally, i have no idea why the adjective of equity (synonym fair) was starred out, i wonder if i will be banned - peace and warmth VV. For sure Marx would have been discomforted by the Communism practised in his name.”
by mcupis
Tuesday, October 16 2012, 6:13AM
“Being economically right wing is not the same as being socially far right. Believing that "the freer the market, the freer the people", does not mean that you are racist, homophobic or don't believe in looking after vulnerable people. This is the simplistic view that many on the left take and convince themselves that people who are economically right wing are contemptible. It simply isn't true.”
by MoeXXX
Monday, October 15 2012, 10:56PM
“Bath1946 - there may be no international standard measure of leftness or rightness, but it is not nearly as subjective as you may think. I would recommend the link I posted as providing a pretty objective view, as well as accepting that the economic left/right continuum is in no way related to the social continuum.
Economically, if you accept the definition of extreme left (communism) as 'state controls everything' and and extreme-right (neoliberalism) as 'private sector owns everything', then its fairly simple to take the median and conclude that the centrist view would probably advocate a free (but regulated) market for goods and most services, but state ownership (or at least majority-shareholder control) over vital public services such as transport, health, education, defence and policing.
By all objective measures, all the major UK parties (as in the US and most of the EU) are right of centre. The UKIP's economic policies place them fairly near the neoliberal extreme-right, similar to the Tories. As I said, this is not a matter of opinion or ideology - that's just the way it is.”
by bath1946
Monday, October 15 2012, 9:51PM
“Moe, there is no absolute delineation between left, right and centre. Not only does it vary according to the capricious vagaries of an electorate more interested in economic welfare than ideology, but also individual policies can be inconsistent. Even Marx wanted an ******ble capitalism.”
by MoeXXX
Monday, October 15 2012, 6:35PM
“AbandonShip; I'm ignoring it 'cos it's not true. The fact UKIP are quite far to the right is not really a matter of opinion and not worthy of debate. I find this site useful in seeing through the fog of entrenched political opinion and national context:
http://tinyurl.com/y8yzdu8”
by AbandonShip
Monday, October 15 2012, 1:06PM
“The "far right" does not include UKIP. How many times does this have to be said but ignored by other commentators? They offer more democratic involvement than all the mainstream "moderate" parties at present.”
by MoeXXX
Sunday, October 14 2012, 12:03AM
“The centre-right vote is currently split between Labour and the Lib Dems; UKIP is taking the far-right votes. Good on 'em. Split the nutjobs. Divide and don't-rule.”
by HMSTamaki
Friday, October 12 2012, 4:56PM
“... and come bottom of the poll! :-)”
by mcupis
Thursday, October 11 2012, 11:27AM
“I suspect that the really nasty thing about UKIP for this letter writer is the fact that they are polling consistently higher than the Liberal Democrats.
The problem for Conservatives is that UKIP are splitting the centre right vote. I think it's a matter of time before the Conservatives dump the Lib Dems, commit to an in/out European referendum and reunite the centre right with UKIP.”