“Gerrish and Co would be wise to learn a lesson or two from King Canute. He was in the opposite position to our current council overlords. His people thought he knew what he was doing and he was well aware of the risk of rising water.”

“Jo - yes I knew the willbridge P&R was a joke. Why spoil somewhere like that when there'a already a meadow available in Bath?

Mat - you are absolutely right. bath people simply don't get it about public transport. When I first started using it over 25 years ago, it was like going back a few hundred years. They still get on a bus ans ask where it's going then hunt around for change...

Thomas - no, I don't live at the beginning or end of a bus route. I'm happy to walk to the nearest bus stop. My commute to work involves 2 buses, sometimes 3, maybe a train.... Yes, I have work to do. I'm a media person, listening to you folks is what I do. It's all good.

JC - I sympathise with your viewpoint. Maybe you could do one commute per week by PT. If everyone did that, it will take a large number off cars off the streets.

London hasn't got publicly-owned PT. Don't want to bore you but this is my area of expertise. Tfl is a public body paid for through taxes. It contracts in bus services, all provided by the private sector, including First. The only exception is East Thames buses which owned by TfL itself, but likely to be sold off by Boris. Tubes are a ltd co. DLR, surface rail and boats are private sector, trams are a partnership between First and a banking group. The integrated ticketing et al are so seamless that everyone thinks TfL own everyting. They certainly run everything and monitor stuff very closely. In my part of London, bordering on a 'home county', the definition of a sparse bus service is one that runs every 20 mins. In bath, it's one that runs on thursdays only....

Good to have such a stimulating debate. Well done to all of you! I may disagree with most of your veiwpoints, but I definitely agree with your right to express them.

Cheers!

:-)”

“Anil, The P&R on Willsbridge was just a joke, I know its not flat, I used to work at the nature reserve.
I also used to live in Hanham, a stones throw away from Longwell Green (that is the Longwell Green & Hanham which is about as much of a suburban 'bubble' as it gets...not quite the bohemian version of Totterdown that you are painting it to be) Now i've moved to the west of Bath, also a stones throw away from Longwell Green. According to you that now makes me an anti environmental, anti-multi cultural, ignorant donkey living in a bubble. You see Anil,its just not that black and white, if you live in a place, you don't all have a collective view.

I do agree with one thing you said though, The public transport is better in Bristol. That's because its not run by B&NES, who go around pretending that getting people to drive to a P&R car park on the edge of town is 'environmentally friendly'”

“Mat - Where demand for rail service has outstripped supply (Sardine trains!), First have managed the excess demand by raising fares to encourage people to use 'less-crowded alternatives'. Behind the Corporate BS, they basically know that most people don't travel to school/ wirk in the middle of the day, so they price people back into their cars. The Private sector runs for maximum profit, not service, hence having as few carriages as possible, and installing airline seats with no leg room.”

“Anil, what connection do you see between local opposition to the BTP and the car usage habits in Bath that have you so incensed? The BTP, as is, hasn¿t got anything to do with residents¿ car travel within the city¿s boundaries or with wresting Bathonians from their private vehicles. In order to make use of the new system, Bath residents would have to drive out of town, park up, and then catch a P&R bus back into town. Not exactly a ¿green¿ solution, is it?

If anything, the BTP (if it were to ever match the Council¿s ¿vision¿ for it) would theoretically give Bathonians free rein to drive in town to their heart¿s content, as the roads would be miraculously free of visiting traffic. Only a congestion charge - the logical next step in the Council¿s game plan ¿ would serve to prevent that.

The reason so many Bath people revert to their car is due to widespread dissatisfaction with the local bus service as provided by First ¿ paying prices that are exorbitant even by 2009 standards to be carted around in poorly disguised survivors from Badgerline¿s 1989 fleet just doesn¿t do it for a lot of people. Under the provisions of the 2008 Local Transport Act, the Council could impose a ¿passengers¿ charter¿ on First, but that¿s been tried before, and the Council fumbled the ball (must have been a nice photo op, though):

http://www.bathnes.gov.uk/press_releases/a-f-releases/bus-quality-partnership.htm

Something like that might actually help free the roads of Bath of the local car users that you loathe so much, who finally had a viable alternative - and might even render the BTP obsolete, as it would then be the visiting traffic that had free rein on the city streets. But really, why use existing legislation to improve matters, when there¿s £60 million in drop-dead gorgeous government funds up for grabs?

And Mat, if demand drives supply, as you say, then why have I spent so many hours on FirstGroup vehicles (both trains and buses) with some other commuter¿s elbow shoved in my solar plexus, or stood on one foot because there wasn¿t space enough to put both down? There were journeys into Temple Meads where I¿m fairly certain I may have had intimate relations with the person stood next to me, but in the crush it was almost impossible to be sure¿”

“JC: "Moe comments on removing parking spaces from the centre, great in theory, but the reality will be more cars driving around aimlessly looking for a parking space."

Exactly, which supports my idea of BANNING them. You can't try to make people understand what stupid things they do by driving around the centre for an hour hunting for parking spaces. So instead you have to prevent them from doing it. What a bad light this throws to education, though ;)”

“Thomas: Your argument is weak, very weak. I understand that blue badge holders might need to have a car, however if they were the only ones, then we wouldn't have a problem. The patchiness and non-reliability of public transport is not a reason for using the car, its the RESULT of using cars. Would there be sufficient demand for public transport, there would be competition between companies to provide it, and this would lead to more buses/trains and cheaper fares. The point is though that as long as people don't ask for buses, there will never be anything else than the crappy First services. It's as simple as that, demand drives supply. Strange though that most Brits are apparently too stubborn to understand that. It works fine, though, everywhere else in the world...”

“Surely the best solution would be to have a large tented city on the nmeadows- on stilts of course to avoid the floods.From there visitors could hire free coracles to paddle into the city to barter for goods and livestock.”

“Hi Anil - Nice to read your comments again. Some valid points, but I wish you would realise that: a - The Bath Public are no worse than anywhere else in the UK for using cars and b - You cannot compare Bath & London. London has fully integrated, affordable and publicly owned public transport, Bath has Worst Bus, high prices, and is surrounded by dormitory places that have both poor services, and exceptionally high prices. And don't forget that Beeching decimated our trains and much of the retail development is out-of-town, so living without a car is hard. I tried it for a few months, but soon gave up as I was moved to a different office - 30 minutes and less than a gallon of petrol by car, or 2 hours at more than double the cost by PT - Do the Maths! The other point is that this scheme will achieve absolutely nothing other than destroying green land, and will do little to reduce car usage in Bath, and will increase congestion in the surrounding areas. Baths biggest problem is lack of options to by-pass it, so a lot of through traffic clogs the roads. The second is the cost of public transport locally, and if your destination is not central, sensible through-ticketing is not available. Until a UK Government actually makes affordable Public transport a priority, Cities like Bath will be congested, and Councils will continue wasting money on hare-brained schemes that will achieve nothing. Moe comments on removing parking spaces from the centre, great in theory, but the reality will be more cars driving around aimlessly looking for a parking space.”

“Anil, is your previous employer the same former Bath City Council that appeased us all by saying Bathampton Meadows would not be subject to incremental developments?
And the consequences of putting cars before anything or anyone? We end up with a Council like B&NES and their Transport Package, telling us what's best for us and not listening to resonable objections!!

The Campaign Against Ignorance”