Row over grieving mother's speed cameras campaign

“Dave, I hope you watched me on DayBreak this morning talking about drug driving. I cover all issues regarding dangerous driving, including speed. My son's killer was charged with "Causing Death by Dangerous driving" this charge was given due to the alcohol & the excessive speed at which he was driving, unfortunately the drugs couldn't be brought into account as there is no law in place to prove the affect drugs have on the ability to drive.
You keep referring to a few mph over the legal limit. Idris Francis a member of the ABD was caught by a speed camera doing 47 mph in a 30 mph zone, I don't call that a few mph over the speed limit, I call that dangerous. To add to insult he then appealed his lost case, wasting tax payers money & had the nerve to ask for public donations. That most definitely is not in the interests of road safety. That is pure selfishness.
There are thousands of drivers who manage perfectly well to drive past speed cameras without them flashing, why do you find that so difficult, especially with your advanced driving education. It's not rocket science, it is simply common sence.”

“I wasn't going to post here again but having just watched you on the One Show conspiring to deliberately hide the fact that your son's killer's had been drinking and taking drugs and ONLY mentioning his speeding, it has utterly convinced me. I have to ask you to question whether your son would approve of your distortion of facts to ensure continued targeting of safe drivers or would he rather have proper policing on the roads catching just the sort of drivers that killed him that we call for and you bizzarrely object to? This driver could have been taken off the road long before he had the chance to kill anybody if road safety policy hadn't been skewed by the likes of Brake with their personal agendas. Instead he knew the chances of being caught drink driving were so remote he went ahead and did it. Just like all the other Brake 'speeding' cases, they knew when they stole the car or had those extra drinks or line of coke that all the police have been replaced by speed cameras and that they would get away with it. Still, so long as we keep fining sober middle class schoolteachers and grannies who have driven all their lives without an accident for doing 34MPH on straight empty roads it's all OK isn't it?

Now to your other point: Any driver who refuses extra training must think they know it all. Why else would they refuse it? Especially when they are dictating to others how they should drive and putting themselves up as a 'road safety campaigner' I would have thought they would want to ensure that they know as much as possible. Strange, very strange but somehow expected.”

“I have spoken to a number of people who found the speed awareness course to be very educational & benefical.
You cannot bring in to this debate how fast airoplanes travel, trains travel, the speed of the earth etc etc, those are simply completely seperate from speeding on our roads.
I go into schools, army, airforce, companies along with others to educate on all aspects of driving not just speed.
I don't know it all about anything I just do the best I can to help reduce deaths & serious injuries on our roads.
I will continue to do that & refuse to be pushed around by bullies. I stand firmly by my previous comment.”

“Clare you have surpassed yourself. Now you only answer questions from those who agree with you! Do you really expect anybody to believe the reason you haven't come up with any cases of deaths or genuine serious injuries from otherwise legal drivers travelling a few MPH above the speed limit is because they would be pulled apart? We have to analyse reasons for crashes to establish ways to prevent them. If they were genuine cases they COULDN'T be 'pulled apart' and the analysis would show that the crash was caused by a sober, otherwise legal driver travelling a few MPH over the limit. It is obvious to all that you haven't put any forward and nor has anybody else because such cases are exceedingly rare if even existent and your mates at Brake simply can't find any. Neither can I, I've been looking for years. However you will never admit this as it doesn't suit your personal agenda to promote the myth that such cases are the majority.

If I had lost a close relative in a road crash (incidentally I have some while back) I would WANT the case pulled apart. I would to know the most effective ways of preventing such a tragedy occuring again. I certainly wouldn't want it used in a game to promote distortion of facts and statistics and promote an empire that is not saving lives.

You go into schools to educate youngsters. Yes, could be fantastic work, but sadly it seems to be to educate them to your own agenda, not to be safer but to obey speed limits. Clearly setting speeds to conditions is a mystery to you but you show no interest in finding out how really safe drivers achieve this so that you can pass on really useful information. Clare knows it all and does not need to learn advanced skills. I see so many drivers like you who think they know it all and that learning stops at the driving test. Realising that one's whole driving career is a learning curve is probably the most important lesson but it seems one you have yet to learn.

You will not learn anything about setting speed to conditions or hazard perception and avoidance at a 'speed awareness course'. I've spoken to enough people who have been on them to be well aware of that. They are simply indoctrination courses preaching the driving by numbers mantra. Anybody who asks the wrong questions gets thrown off the course and given the points and fine instead.

This has become like a religion. Rational argument, analysis or questioning is not allowed. There is only one reason why anybody would want to close down debate. When they know deep down they have got it so wrong.

Goodbye.”

“Idris Francis is just a rude, cruel man, who has nothing better to do than twist the truth to suit his own beliefs. Google his name to find out about him yourself.
Speed kills!! Every body knows it!
My son was killed in a RTC, it is RTC's of every kind that I am trying to reduce on our roads. I have never said a speed camera may have saved my sons life! that is just the poor arguement Idris & the ABD are using because they don't have a real arguement to present! They need to concider the hurt they cause with the words they print. But I doubt they will ever do that because they obviously don't care about people. Dead or Alive!”

“"Speed kills and that is the indisputable fact."

Philippa, I'm afraid saying that something is a fact does not make it so! The Earth is moving around the Sun at a speed of nearly 67,000 mph; and, depending where you are, it also rotates at a speed of up to 1,000 mph. Yet you don't even notice all this speed! If "speed kills" we'd all be dead.

It it the inappropriate or excessive use of speed which kills; the problem is this is not such a snappy sound bite.

Clare, you have not explained why you accused me of hiding behind an alias, or even acknowledged the fact that I may not be.

You said "You talk about harsher penalties for those who drive recklessly. which is all well & good but this would be given after someone has been killed, after someone has been seriously injured."

Why would the threat of points on your licence after being caught by a speed camera be more effective at slowing drivers down than the threat of a harsh penalty for driving recklessly?

But of course you will not answer me as I obviously don't know what I'm talking about simply because I disagree with you.

Then again, in spite of his excellent expalnation and defence of the 85th percentile rule (as well as his other well thouth out posts), Dave Russell obviously hasn't a clue what he's talking about either.

Funny that the illogical hysteria all seems to come from posters on your side of the fence!”

“You talk about harsher penalties for those who drive recklessly. which is all well & good but this would be given after someone has been killed, after someone has been seriously injured. My aim has always been to re-educate drivers to prevent the death, the serious injury. To save lives on our roads, not accummilate deaths. No one has a cure for death! We can only do our very best to prevent it. Which is exactly what I try to do. We can try to educate those who are in schools, colleges, forces, companies etc with road safety presentations. We cannot educate other drivers, which is why speed cameras are a vital part of road safety. Not only do they slow most drivers down which educates them into thinking about there speed & the restrictions on our roads, but also those who get caught by the cameras are offered a speed awareness course instead of the points on their licence which is an education in itself. There are thousands of people who drive every single day without a fear of speed cameras, because they drive within the limits set by law. Most people believe that the punishment given by speed cameras fit the crime. Getting rid of the cameras does not end "The War on Motorists" because it only benefits those who break the law. To end "The War on Motorists" the government should be lowering road tax or reducing fuel costs, so that lawabiding drivers benefit too.”

“Dave Russell. I have infact answered many many questions put to me. I only answer questions which are asked by those who know what they are talking about. That I am afraid doesn't include you. You cannot possibly expect me to talk to you on an adult level, when you constantly behave like a spoilt child.
You are incredibly RUDE, NASTY, & YES, PERSONAL! with your comments. Your attitude towards others leaves an awful lot to be desired. All you want is an arguement which I have become bored with, simply because YOU would argue Black is White if it were white you wanted. If anyone disagreed with you, you would personally attack them also.
Now if you ever thought that I would write down here anybody elses death caused by speed just so that you could pull it to shreds & cause added pain to their relatives. WRONG!!! I am a better person that that!”

“Anyone with any feeling for human frailty and the abject horror of losing a child should question their motives in weak and unneccessary verbal attacks such as I have read above. Whether speed cameras are retained or scrapped will not hinge on any of the comments made here, but I imagine that all those above who want to make such an issue of a person's right to campaign against these cameras are just the people who are abusing the speed limits set to keep us all safe. If no-one was to speed then the cameras would be redundant but it seems patently clear that this is not the case and speeding is killing daily. Clare is emotive because she has every right to be and I defy all of you to not be equally effected should you suffer as she has. She is a person of real moral fibre who cares very deeply for people in general. She campaigns for anything that will make the roads safer and this is just one issue. Shame on all of you who deem fit to make such callous and ill thought comments. Speed kills and that is the indisputable fact.”

“Clare asks: What limit would you set on our roads for a "safe maximum speed"? Clare you seem to be very good at asking questions but seem to have very few answers.

Quite simply the 85th percentile method has been scientifically proven to be the safest level to set speed limits in most cases (there are exceptions for particularly deceptive roads). I would establish a body of experts to oversee setting of limits from a traffic policing, advanced training etc background and take it out of the hands of local councillors who frequently ignore expert advice when there are a few votes to be had. Speed limits were a very useful road safety tool, warning drivers of hazards they needed to slow down for such as built up areas. Since the politically motivated got involved they have been extended way beyond the entrance to hazardous areas so drivers now ignore them as they have become used to limits not matching the hazard level as they should. A vital safety tool destroyed by the likes of Brake.

Clare and others. You have a clear agenda to imply that anybody who feels your approach is not the right one wants to 'drive as fast as they like'. Why then do these folk, almost without exception want more traffic police and harsher penalties for those who drive carelessly and recklessly, including those who drive at speeds above a safe level? If they wanted to drive too fast that would INCLude themselves! Your insults and slurs simply don't add up. Yet you haven't been insulted yourself but whine to the papers that you have.

By far the biggest story to come out of this debate is that Brake cannot find ONE single case of ANYBODY being killed by a sober, licensed, otherwise legal driver travelling a few MPH over the speed limit yet your methods target this group way,way above anybody else. At firts I thought you were well meaning but misguided Clare but having read your postings it has become abundantly clear this is no more than a personal vendetta against a percentage of the population who pose the lowest risk on our roads. Your campaign is killing people purely and simply because it is diverting attention away from the real issues onto a non issue.

There is little point in continuing a debate with Clare who NEVER answers questions, whines she has been insulted when she hasn't then pleads nobody can question her as she has been bereaved. Clare it is abundantly obvious you don't answer questions as you have no answers. You are clearly motivated by hatred of a demonstrably relatively harmless sector of the population, not by a genuine interest in saving lives at all. This wouldn't matter but your diversion tactics are masking the real issues.”