New 20mph limits to be investigated
A new 20mph zone is likely to be established in Bath to allow council chiefs to assess whether such restrictions actually reduce speeds in residential areas.
Opposition Liberal Democrats on Bath and North East Somerset Council have been campaigning for more than two years to get such zones introduced more widely in the city.
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They have pointed to the success of schemes to bring in multiple low-speed zones in cities such as Portsmouth, where there is a Liberal Democrat local authority.
Now, after attending a conference on the subject in the south coast city, the council's Conservative transport leader has ordered a trial project next year.
Councillor Charles Gerrish (Con, Keynsham North), the cabinet member in charge of highways and road safety, has asked council officials to investigate how 20mph zones have been implemented by other authorities - including Tory-controlled Oxfordshire County Council.
They have been asked to pinpoint possible locations for a trial 20mph zone in B&NES, which would begin next year.
Mr Gerrish said the authority had already invested heavily in road safety schemes, including some 20mph zones around schools.
There has long also been a 20mph zone in the Camden area of Bath.
Mr Gerrish said: "Following the success of these schemes, and having looked at other councils which have implemented 20mph zones in residential areas, we are keen to see a trial take place in B&NES and have asked council officers to put together possible locations for the cabinet to consider. Funding would then be earmarked for the trial in Conservative budget proposals for the next financial year."
The Conservatives say that one of the issues to be considered in choosing a location for the trial will be the current speed of traffic in different residential areas.
They say studies of areas which have already implemented 20mph zones have shown that where average speeds were above 24mph before the introduction of the new limit, speeds can be reduced by as much as 7mph.
But in areas where congestion or other factors have already slowed traffic below 24mph, average speeds were cut by less than 1mph.
There are also concerns over whether such new zones could be realistically policed.
Mr Gerrish added: "It's important that the right location for a trial is chosen. Studies into other 20mph zones have shown that they are most effective when coupled with other traffic calming measures, so it is important that 20mph limits are not implemented at the expense of other road safety schemes."
Liberal Democrats are still keen for the Tories to move to the more general policy advocated by their Twenty is Plenty campaign rather than what they call a "piecemeal" approach.
Councillor Caroline Roberts (Lib Dem, Newbridge) said: "The cabinet member should come out and admit that Twenty is Plenty and get on with Liberal Democrat proposals to slash speeds in all our residential areas.
"Liberal Democrats have been calling for the introduction of blanket 20 mph limits in residential areas for over two years, and there is a lot of support from residents for the idea.
"Such 20 mph speed limits would make walking and cycling safer and should result in fewer accidents."
The new limits in Oxfordshire have been criticised by the Oxford group of the Institute of Advanced Motorists, and the Oxford Driving Instructors' Association, with criticism that the programme was like "trying to repair a Rolex with a mallet" and had encouraged pedestrians to be more cavalier about crossing roads.
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by HC, Beyondthepale-sub-Mendip
Thursday, November 19 2009, 7:44PM
“Some of these comments with their touchingly candid descriptions of incompetence and temperamental unsuitability for handling a tonne of heavy machinery in a public place is a shining testament to the wonders of 21st Century motor vehicle technology in that *only* ten people are killed by motorists every 24 hours.
It also underlines the vital need for the early implementation of 20 limits in all urban areas. It is too much to hope, no doubt, that these restrictions would be rigorously enforced, helping to weed out the incompetents permanently.”
by CS, Newbridge
Wednesday, November 18 2009, 11:03AM
“Having once had the misfortune a couple of years ago of being sat in the back of a taxi going up West Avenue at 50+mph I don¿t consider that the speed limit simply being reduced from 30 to 20 in various places is the solution, it will just make more people consider all limits a joke. I would suggest the question is how to get drivers to respect the speed limits and that the answer in my opinion is the enforcement of realistic limits. Some areas should be reduced to 20 but others should be increased from 30 to 40, Wellsway dual carriageway for example.
As JC (14-Nov 18:04 ) says ¿The vast majority of car drivers drive appropriately for the conditions.¿ Demonising all drivers is not going to solve the problem, More teaching of road sense to pedestrians would also help.”
by Tom Trosborg, Bath
Wednesday, November 18 2009, 10:40AM
“Isn't this all really rather simple - of course you can send glances to your speedometer, same as you should check your mirrors frequently. No problem. There generally is no excuse for speeding. Please get help from a qualified driving instructor if you struggle, it ain't all that difficult.
Incidentally, much as I support the notion of a 20mph speed limit in local residential streets I'm dismayed to see the TwentyIsPlenty campaign used politically.”
by johnbatheaston, batheaston
Wednesday, November 18 2009, 10:31AM
“A 30mph or 20mph speed limit is that. It is NOT a requirement that you do that speed only that you do not exceed that limit. 25mph is fine and your speed should depend on the conditions of the road. Minimum speed limits are rare but do exist and are indicated by blue signs. It is in the Highway Code if drivers care to read it again after passing their driving tests.”
by Moe, Bath
Tuesday, November 17 2009, 9:26PM
“P'haps we're all mixing up cause and effect. Perhaps they put the speed trap there *because* speeding is prevalent. Speeding downhill - where the stopping distance is greatly increased - is certainly a problem on Ralph Allen. There have been several accidents there.
Thomas - I wonder who is really adopting a holier-than-thou attitude - those that try not to break the law but accept their punishment in good faith if they do, or those who contrive excuses to justify themselves when they get caught?”
by Thomas, Bath
Tuesday, November 17 2009, 6:43PM
“Then there is no point in trying to explain it further is there? Some people just like getting hold of the wrong end of the stick!”
by geojay, Bath
Tuesday, November 17 2009, 5:47PM
“I don't see how you can accuse Moe misinterpreting your previous comment...
"Know what you mean Happydays.......my stepson was unlucky enough to get a ticket for doing 35 mph up Bathwick Hill on a Sunday lunchtime. Yes, before anyone snipes, he was speeding, but to have a camera van there on a Sunday lunchtime in a non accident blackspot reeks of pure moneymaking as they must know it is very difficult to keep a car down to 30 on the hills."
That seems pretty unambiguous to me, according to you he was going uphill and even with the slowing effect of gravity you're implying it's difficult to keep a car below 30. I can't see how else to interpret your comment.”
by Thomas, Bath
Tuesday, November 17 2009, 8:34AM
“No Moe you didn't read it right at all. It was not about not being able to drive properly at all and certainly not a "contrived excuse for speeding" as you put it. It was an observation as to the placement of so called "safety cameras" on a stretch of road (like the top of Bathwick Hill or just above Bear Flat) that is not a particular accident blackspot at very quiet times when there is not much about. They could be better deployed at real danger points much more effectively instead of looking for easy targets. And like Happy days I have been driving since I was 13 (off road of course) and do not deliberately set out to break the law, but I do not believe anyone who says they have never broken a speed limit as it is too easy to slip up. I bet every one of the sanctimonious "holier than thou" posters on here at some time have been driving along, simply keeping up with the traffic flow and looked down and gone "oops", then eased off! I have been overtaken by just about everything driving up Wellsway, even a police car (not on call) and sometimes get the feeling I am the only one "in step"!”
by Moe, Bath
Monday, November 16 2009, 8:51PM
“"...as they must know it is very difficult to keep a car down to 30 on the hills."
Did I read that right? Of all the contrived excuses I've ever heard for speeding, "hills" has to about the most ludicrous. I suggest anyone who can't cope with "hills" without staying within the law should have their licence revoked immediately.”
by Happy days, midsomer Norton
Monday, November 16 2009, 6:34PM
“Bully for all of you,All I know is if there is a 30mph sign I adhere to it.I have had 40 odd years accident free driving and I hope I will continue to drive in a safe manner. But I don't want 20mph signs unless it is a safety aspect ie schools etc.”