“Steve - Not sure who took away your comment but I doubt it was anything to do with First UK.

If they employ a Public Relations Manager that either can't or won't answer a very simple question, how likely is it that your comment was either understood or attributed any value by them?”

“So how come my comment has been removed? Maybe a bit of factual input was not desired here? Must be somebody inside First who took away my right to free speech then! Thats First for you.”

“Pete, the benefits of hybrid engine technologies have already been proven. So why have you only chosen to describe them in generic terms, providing no new information and without any reference to the topic which is "trials" in Bath?

For First UK or anyone else to suggest that these bus trials in Bath might somehow reveal new technical breakthroughs or entirely new evidence to support the case for them, in comparison to conventionally powered transport, is a nonsense and bears no real scrutiny.

The real reasons for these trials on Park & Ride routes remains hidden.”

“Mr Turner, trolleybuses deliver zero emissions at the point of use, the same applies to trams. They do not pollute the streets we use or the air we breath. In Bath this is particularly important as the city's location in a bowl surrounded by hills traps vehicle emissions. The London Rd at Cleveland Place exceeds the EU air quality levels by quite a margin I believe. Electricity generation does cause emissions through the burning of fossil fuel, but it is easier to mitigate against that at a few power stations, rather than in a fleet of diesel buse. Another advantage of electric traction is reduced noise and vibration. I hope the hybrid bus trials prove successful, and offer significant fuel savings over diesel buses.

For more on the advantages of trolley buses see citytransport.info/Electbus.htm”

“Karen - even though your reply doesn't answer my question I'd like to say thank you very much and I appreciate you taking the time to provide it.

Here are the reasons for my conclusion.

1 & 2) Don't say why P&R operations are considered a more "natural fit" than other routes or why the project was specified as you describe, which were salient points of my query.

3) Makes logical sense but begs an additional question: 'Does this mean no single deck hybrids have been built to offer greater flexibility in trialling the hybrid technology'?

4) Makes logical sense, but surely driver training would be the same regardless of trial routes used? This therefore fails to address my original question.

5) Is not at all relevant as there is no route through Bath that doesn't have to negotiate both level conditions and the hills that surround the city. So this also fails to address my original question.

If you have more time I'd now be interested to read reasons why you appear to have avoided answering the question.”

“Thanks Karen, at least we all now know that First read the posts on this site. Pray tell us why it has taken up to this story for First to make a response? Because it was not about the poor service perhaps?”

“

Peter, to answer your question about why the P&R was chosen to trial this technology, there are a number of reasons:

1) The trial is a partnership between the EU, BaNES Council and First. The P&R is operated by First under contract to the Council so there is a natural fit there.

2) The definition of the project was specified on routes that would serve existing P&R sites

3) The hybrid vehicle being trialled is a double deck bus. For obvious reasons we want to do a straight comparison with other similar buses. As the P&R is operated by double deck buses it made sense to trial it on that. Comparatively, we use very few double deck buses on our other commercial routes in Bath.

4) There is a dedicated pool of drivers who work on the P&R service in Bath (meaning we only have to train a distinct group of people in how to drive this new type of bus)
And finally

5) The P&R routes are quite varied in terms of landscape (flat bits, lots of hills) so by trialling this bus on the three P&R routes we can test the bus¿ performance under a variety of different conditions.

I hope that answers your question.

With kind regards”

“I've been on it, and it managed the climb up Wellsway just fine - the engine didn't sound stressed, just sort of . . . wooshy.”

“"The only effective zero-emission electric bus technology available now is the trolleybus"
Errrr that would be run on electricity generated without emissions, then ? of which the UK has an abundant supply.
Or are you suggesting that the emissions should just be dumped on someone else, living near a generating station ?”

“It will be interesting to see the results of this trial. It is true that the regenerative braking going down Wellsway and Lansdown will recharge the batteries and enable battery-only operation in the city centre. However they will also have to climb the same hills on the return trips. Electric motors are far superior at hill climbing than diesel, but I wonder about the state of the battery charge. Will the energy stored on the descents be more than the amount discharged on the ascents? If not the 1.9L diesel engine is going to be working hard and chucking out emissions. Then there is the issue of through-life battery costs - how long will they last? How much to replace?

The only effective zero-emission electric bus technology available now is the trolleybus. String up those wires, buy the buses (tried and tested design), and away you go. Wires also indicate an investment in permanent infrastructure, and counter the 'here today - gone tomorrow' nature of diesel bus services - witness the fate of the 6/7 etc.

More on hybrid buses here:
citytransport.info/Hybrid.htm”