“A well written retort James, and I celebrate your efforts. I do think getting informed is the correct approach, but the basic point is being overlooked. Religious groups in any form, should not be used to counteract the forces in society. They will always by their nature create divides and propagate mis-informed ideologies to the people.

If your work is worth doing, then do it without the religion, then you are a man who truly believes in what you do.”

“I am the director of Bath Youth for Christ and having read the comments I hope it is helpful to try and address generally and specifically the concerns raised by Ben and The Gnome.

I understand that you may have had some bad experiences of Christian organisations and even Youth for Christ as you write in your comments. However I want to reassure you that Bath YFC would never ¿prey¿ upon children or seek to ¿warp the minds¿ of young people as you suggest. You make assumptions about an organisation you clearly know very little about; Bath YFC specifically and YFC generally. YFC is a very diverse organisation (there are nearly 70 centres around the country) and whilst having a similar DNA they are quite different.

Furthermore you don¿t seem to give young people much credit. They are savvier than your comments suggest and do have the ability to critique belief systems! Bath YFC does run programmes that allow people to explore the Christian faith but these are attended voluntarily and in any project where we offer young people the opportunity to explore the Christian faith we make clear what we are doing and make space for and encourage comment, disagreement and questions. Surely this is a positive approach. I can assure you that Bath YFC is tolerant of people of any faith and no faith whilst being clear that we do have distinctive beliefs, in the same way that all people have a distinctive belief system.

Ben you comment in your first entry¿
¿I remember various different methods being used in schools I went to, to encourage us through the use of 'fun' lures such as comedy and dance to become one of them. Only at the last minute of course, the true intents were realised.¿
As I highlighted above young people are more aware than you suggest. Music, dance or comedy are used genuinely to engage young people where they are at. In other words we may play football or offer dance lessons but that is because that is what young people want. We are responding to their needs and interests. Taking the youth café as an example, this was in response to young people saying that they would like a space to meet and socialise. Young people started the ball rolling, have been part of the development all along and continue to be involved.

You continue¿ ¿It is all too common he explained, that Youth for Christ encourages children to ignore science and even be taught by their 'teachers'.¿
Sadly as is the case in secularism, Christianity or any other belief system there are those with extreme and narrow views and I would have the same concerns as you if children and young people were being told to ignore science or faith. Bath YFC would never do such a thing.

The Gnome, you appear to have had some bad experience a few years ago. I would just reiterate that Bath YFC would not engage in such ways of working and if true I find the comments that you allege were made appalling and contrary to the ¿way of Christ¿. Christ valued and loved children and in line with that central to the work of Bath YFC is the valuing, safety and well-being of young people.

Ben, regarding your second contribution from 28th September I agree that Bath YFC is not the only organisation working with young people in Bath to offer help and provide positive activities in Bath. The council youth service do a great job through their various youth centres and are looking to launch a city centre detached youth work team. There is also the Percy Centre and Project 28 who do great work with young people in the city centre.

Finally (you¿ll be pleased to read) Ben states that it is important that people are a little more informed about YFC. I agree but reading the critical comments about YFC, whilst I can¿t argue with your personal experiences, I would suggest you need to heed some of Ben¿s very sensible advice. If you wanted to be more informed I would happily meet you for coffee to listen to your concerns and answ”

“Larryos,

Firstly it's presumptuous to assume that without YFC that the only outcome could be youth drinking on the streets.

Secondly, I can assure you that not all teachers support this group. As Bath has many schools which follow a religious ethos, it's hardly surprising that they support TFC; however this does not make it right.

And finally, whilst 'evil' may be a bit strong, indeed I don't think myself that this is a good description; it is important that people are informed a little more about the group. It is just plain wrong to abuse a bad situation, to enlist new members in to the organisation, especially one which is as questionable as it is.

Religion is not a solution to problems such as these, and history informs us of the problems it causes. Children do need to be given other options instead of causing trouble, but nut-job religious groups are not the answer.

I don't profess to have all of the answers, but I do know when I'm looking at the wrong one. How about you take all of the things that are being done to provide wholesome activities, and then take the religious preachings out, then and to be honest only then, might you have a moral and acceptable programme.”

“Thank you both for exposing the ¿evils¿ of this group.

It is far better for teens to be wandering the streets of Bath. drinking, causing abuse and vandalising until the early hours than to be offered an alternative safe, open café to go to instead. Most teens cause trouble because they are bored and there¿s nothing to do at night.

Until secular youth work starts to come up with some better ideas of how to deal with such issues then I don¿t think it¿s particularly helpful or constructive to criticise an organisation who trying to make a difference to the Bath community.

They are supported by the police, the council and schools in the area. Using phrases such as ¿evil¿ and ¿preying¿ is provocative nonsense, they are not a doomsday cult!”

“This is very true what Ben is saying.

I attended a Youth for Christ meeting some years back and the main speaker in charge of the meeting was instructing the workers to 'target' children of ages 10 to 18 years of age as they were 'young and vulnerable and open to any new idea's and should be easy to mould to the way of Christ'

Now if that isn't brainwashing and taking advantage of people I don't know what is?

Another thing, ever been to a Christian weekend that has a skate park? I think you'll find they all do now, why? because it is a way of getting kids to attend!

Evil.”

“Youth for Christ are a disturbing force which has been attempting and in some cases succeeding, to warp the minds of children for many years. They are much the same as any cult in their methodologies; preying upon the whims of the childlike mind and seducing them to the closed minded nature of the church.

I remember various different methods being used in schools I went to, to encourage us through the use of 'fun' lures such as comedy and dance to become one of them. Only at the last minute of course, the true intents were realised.

A family member of mine who was a headmaster for many years until retirement, explained his concerns regarding the group. It is all to common he explained, that Youth for Christ encourages children to ignore science and even be taught by their 'teachers'. I am sure that many will now rush to their defense, but rest assured; that this group should be exposed.”