'Brutish, barbaric, insensitive, idiotic' – UK's armed forces?

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Thursday, October 29, 2009
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This is Bath

Re: The recent letter sent to the press from four British Generals about the far right

I see that these generals have complained about the BNP (or whoever) using military insignia because it smears the 'proud' heritage of the armed forces.

What proud heritage?

The armed forces don't have a proud heritage.

What they have is a bloody, unpleasant, nasty, brutish, barbaric, insensitive, stupid, idiotic heritage of slaughter and butchery, of children, pregnant women, adolescents, young men in their prime (a lot of them) and other innocent civilians.

The generals are members of a role group historically responsible for such despicable behaviour as to place them in a category of monsters by themselves.

History has been plagued, endlessly, by the foul behaviour of members of the armed forces and it continues to be plagued in Afghanistan, where innocent civilians are being butchered.

There was a recent case of a missile killing about 100 Afghans who were trying to remove petrol from two stolen tankers. The military targeted the tankers (a prime target?) and killed the 100 civilians nearby. A case of total, idiot crassness.

The stolen tankers apparently had to be destroyed because they might power the Taliban's motorbikes! For this 100 civilians are massacred by NATO?

The whole of NATO should have been withdrawn and sent to prison for collusion in mass murder. But no, they go on slaughtering the innocent.

I was researching World War I recently and I discovered that many British casualties (no doubt German, French, Italian and Austrian) were caused by friendly fire of the artillery.

There is nothing 'friendly' about allied shells blowing up hundreds waiting to go over the top.

Others were gassed by their own army's gas. No doubt, stuff like this is happening in Afghanistan as it happened in the Iraq wars.

Who needs enemies, if one is a Brit soldier when one has the British army killing you?

Warfare is the most brutal, stupid, prehensile activity of Neolithic cave people and no-one on any side who voluntarily engages in it, is associated with it, supports, supplies, plans it has any right to mix with civilian populations of any country.

All professional military personnel/terrorists organisations and their support structures should be sent to the middle of Australia and left to rot, surrounded by a trench a 100 yards wide.

Incidentally it has been proved we are all related by blood and are descendants of one tribe out of Africa. Therefore the military slaughter their distant relatives by the minute! There's fraternal love for you!

'Proud heritage'? A heritage of death, destruction, mass murder, slaughter, torture, broken limbs, broken lives, broken minds, widows, orphans, the maimed and the drunk.

Oh indeed, one can be sooo proud of that 'proud' heritage.

TONY CULVER Bath

Editor's note: Mr Culver's views are certainly controversial – what do you think? Write to us or email letters@bathchron.co.uk with your viewpoint.

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    by Terry Organ, Bath

    Wednesday, November 04 2009, 12:23PM

    “Whilst in a free society we are allowed to express our views without much hinderance, I find his rather strange. Through most of his rantings, and that is what they clearly are, he appears to have nothing good to say about the British Armed Forces. He should never forget one thing and that is. Seventy years ago if we had not had armed forces available to engage with the enemy, we would as a country have been over run. We would now all be speaking German, and Mr. Culver would certainly not be allowed to write such insulting rubbish.

    Terry Organ

    Bath”

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    by Dave, Weston

    Tuesday, November 03 2009, 11:58AM

    “A rather twisted viewpoint that seeks to portray every action as planned and deliberate, when in reality most were either totally accidental or at worst honest misjudgements.

    I suspect most of us posting on here make significantly more mistakes than members of our armed forces - the big difference is that in the main our tools of trade are more forgiving.

    Of course it would be ideal if no-one fought, but for that to happen we would need to show each and everyone else a lot more generosity of spirit than that displayed by Mr Culver - the irony being that it is precisely that sort of intemperate tirade of hatred that results in wars! Fortunately the only war Mr Culver is in a position to start is one of words on a provincial newspaper website - heaven help us all if he was in charge of the world.

    (Incidentally what has Australia ever done to be designated the dumping ground for undesirables - not withstanding the fact I wouldn't use that term for all those selected by Mr Culver!)”

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    by JC, Bath

    Monday, November 02 2009, 8:57PM

    “What an utterly deluded idiot. I may not agree with certain conflicts, but the guys doing the fighting deserve our full support as they do a difficult job, often having to make split-second decisions that can mean the difference between life and death, only to get criticised by buffoons like this who have 20/20 hindsight.”

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    by Dave Larkhall, Larkhall

    Monday, November 02 2009, 6:13PM

    “Fancy coming to Wooton Basset next week with me Mr Culver? We can welcome home the body of the Staff Sergeant blown to bits yesterday trying to de-fuse a roadside bomb so the locals can walk the road in safety. Then you can console his loved ones with your so sensitive views.”

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    by Mike, Bath

    Sunday, November 01 2009, 11:03PM

    “I think one should look for reason for Tony Culver¿s outburst. We experienced this sort of thing quite often during the war and it was found that such behaviour was invariably brought about by impotence. If this is the reason in poor Tony¿s case, surely he should be the subject of our compassion rather the focus of our abhorrence.”

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    by Steve Garth, Yorkshire

    Saturday, October 31 2009, 11:37PM

    “I am very please that this man feels free to publish his comments. I applaud his beliefs.
    I totally and unequivocally disagree with him, but I and my friends, our fathers and grandfathers fought for him to be able to not only think these things, but speak them and even print them here.
    Good for him, he proves the sacrifices of others was worth it.
    Now he should go to China or Korea and see if he can say similar there. Or imagine a world controlled by the Nazi's or Saddam Hussein, or the Islam Taliban.
    War is war, and todays war is still brutal and destroys.
    Now, Mr pacifist, imagine the Iraq or Afghan war being fought in 1930, does he think the death toll would be so low (comparitively)? I bet in 1930 we would have had numerous total frontal assaults and thousands dead, villages decimated, carpet bombing and worse.
    Todays Generals complete the task with minimal casualties on our side, and minimal civilian casulties.”

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    by Saddam Hussain, Graveyard

    Saturday, October 31 2009, 11:33AM

    “I like him”

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    by Tony Blair, Westminister

    Saturday, October 31 2009, 11:30AM

    “No war?? Interesting. I wish I had thought of that.
    Im afraid I agree with julian. Mr Culver is a bit of a pufter.”

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    by Lev, The Barracks

    Saturday, October 31 2009, 10:49AM

    “Go on, tell us the truth. There must be a reason you are so bitter. Perhaps you failed the entrance exam?

    'People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.
    -George Orwell'”

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    by Veteran, Swindon

    Saturday, October 31 2009, 10:27AM

    “As a veteran of my fair share of past and present conflicts i find thes comments distasteful and this guy needs to come out to Afghan and see for himself the good we are doing.
    Both Iraq from my first trip in 2003 to my last in 2007 had change no end the people yes went through a horrible period of change but things have now got better for them and will continue to do so. In Afghan to-date things have improved for the Afghan people too the change is slower but the conflict is a different one. We did a good job in Iraq and are doing so in Afghan - Yes people died on all sides but this is war and unfortunately it happens, but we as soldiers will continue to stand side by side in this fight until they no longer need out help.

    Please read:

    JUST A COMMON SOLDIER
    (A Soldier Died Today)
    by A. Lawrence Vaincourt

    He was getting old and paunchy and his hair was falling fast,
    And he sat around the Legion, telling stories of the past.
    Of a war that he had fought in and the deeds that he had done,
    In his exploits with his buddies; they were heroes, every one.

    And tho' sometimes, to his neighbors, his tales became a joke,
    All his Legion buddies listened, for they knew whereof he spoke.
    But we'll hear his tales no longer for old Bill has passed away,
    And the world's a little poorer, for a soldier died today.

    He will not be mourned by many, just his children and his wife,
    For he lived an ordinary and quite uneventful life.
    Held a job and raised a family, quietly going his own way,
    And the world won't note his passing, though a soldier died today.

    When politicians leave this earth, their bodies lie in state,
    While thousands note their passing and proclaim that they were great.
    Papers tell their whole life stories, from the time that they were young,
    But the passing of a soldier goes unnoticed and unsung.

    Is the greatest contribution to the welfare of our land
    A guy who breaks his promises and cons his fellow man?
    Or the ordinary fellow who, in times of war and strife,
    Goes off to serve his Country and offers up his life?

    A politician's stipend and the style in which he lives
    Are sometimes disproportionate to the service that he gives.
    While the ordinary soldier, who offered up his all,
    Is paid off with a medal and perhaps, a pension small.

    It's so easy to forget them for it was so long ago,
    That the old Bills of our Country went to battle, but we know
    It was not the politicians, with their compromise and ploys,
    Who won for us the freedom that our Country now enjoys.

    Should you find yourself in danger, with your enemies at hand,
    Would you want a politician with his ever-shifting stand?
    Or would you prefer a soldier, who has sworn to defend
    His home, his kin and Country and would fight until the end?

    He was just a common soldier and his ranks are growing thin,
    But his presence should remind us we may need his like again.
    For when countries are in conflict, then we find the soldier's part
    Is to clean up all the troubles that the politicians start.

    If we cannot do him honor while he's here to hear the praise,
    Then at least let's give him homage at the ending of his days.
    Perhaps just a simple headline in a paper that would say,
    Our Country is in mourning, for a soldier died today.

    © 1987 A. Lawrence Vaincourt”

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